I was channel surfing the other day and stumbled upon a Dogs 101 episode with Shiba Inus. They characterized Shiba Inus as “one of the most difficult breeds to train”.
- Why is a Shiba Inu difficult to train?
- What makes a Shiba Inu more difficult to train than other dog breeds?
Of course a Shiba is stubborn and strong-willed, but then so are many other breeds, including the Siberian Husky. Why then are Shibas more challenging to train than other strong-willed breeds?
1. A Shiba Will Do What a Shiba Wants
A Shiba Inu will only respond to activities that makes sense to him, and not necessarily to you. The good news is a Shiba is not shy about letting you know what he likes, and what he wants!
Shiba owners usually listen carefully to their dogs, and personalize training methods to suit individual preferences and temperaments.
Shibas also think for themselves, and are very motivated to come up with alternate ways to reach their goals. As a result, training a Shiba Inu is often counter-intuitive, and traditional dog training methods may not work well.
Shiba owners must be creative and flexible.
A Shiba may follow commands if they make sense to him. Other times, he will do something else that ROCKS!
Some people may reason that since Shiba Inus are independent thinkers, they would respond better to aversive training techniques, such as collar corrections or alpha rolls.
This is false.
Shiba Inus are also extremely strong-willed and stubborn. They will fight back if they feel threatened. I started with aversive training techniques, and my Shiba Sephy fought me every step of the way. The more a dog practices fighting back, the more likely he will repeat that behavior and develop aggression issues down the road. Sephy was surely heading that way, which was why I started looking into alternative training methods.
Aversive techniques also made Sephy lose trust in me.
2. A Shiba Inu Will Not Surrender Even When All Is Lost
All dogs think for themselves. They have their own needs, which may not always coincide with ours.
Strong-willed dogs are not afraid to push their own agenda, even if it puts them in conflict with us and other dogs.
However, even strong-willed breeds like the Siberian Husky will give up the ghost when they see that the effort and time involved, is not worth the end result.
On the other hand, Shiba Inus have a very …
singular state of mind.
~~[ Geoge ]
Once a Shiba starts to focus on something, he may quickly become obsessed. When in that singular state of mind, it is difficult to distract Shiba and get him to do something else.
When Sephy gets into that obsessive state, he will not give up no matter what. Even if things look hopeless, he will not surrender. The more I try to force him to comply, the more he will dig in his paws and not budge.
For Shiba Inu Sephy, giving-up is simply not an option.
It seems that any kind of concession will deal such a grievous blow to his Shiba pride that he is willing to do whatever it takes to protect it. Sephy is willing to endure pain, not eating, not going for his walks, not getting affection or attention, losing his freedom, and much more; when his Shiba Honor is on the line.
This great quote from the I am Shiba blog sums it up very well
I Am Shiba. Seppuku will not be enough.
The best way of getting Sephy to do something is not to make it into a challenge or a fight. If Sephy does not want me to brush his teeth, he does not get his usual melted cheese and chicken meal. I will simply go back to my tasks, and when I am free, I try again. By then, he is usually hungry and in a different state of mind.
3. A Shiba Inu Has the Heart of a Rebel
Shiba Inus are often characterized as independent, aloof, and more like a cat.
I think that Shibas are independent minded, but they actually want and enjoy a fair bit of human attention; perhaps more so than many other dog breeds.
Unlike other dogs however, Shibas are not necessarily looking for positive attention. With Sephy, any type of attention will do; as long as it is big, all-eyes-on-Shiba, high quality attention.
Negative human attention is easier to obtain, more intense, and usually lasts for a longer duration.
As such, this is the type of attention that Shiba Sephy usually strives for, not unlike an online troll. If he is able to get my goat, he will. If he is able to get my goat and start a fun chasing game, that is even better!
If I tell Sephy not to do something, he will definitely try to do it the first chance he gets. He is sneaky and will do it when my back is turned. However, if I am not home, he spends most of his time sleeping because he does not have an audience.
The “game” is only fun when there is a real danger of being caught, and the possibility of escape. An audience is also necessary to see his God-like Shiba-ness.
I have since learned that one of the best ways to deal with Shiba-hijinks is to stay above the fray and ignore my attention-seeking Shiba. Sephy does not like being ignored. He will go to great lengths to get the attention of those that seem disinterested in him – even if it means following commands!
What to you think?
- Are Shiba Inus one of the most difficult breeds to train?
- What makes a Shiba Inu difficult to train?
- Which dog breeds, do you think, are more difficult to train than a Shiba?
Many thanks to Kblover & Wally, Brett & Ziva, Andrea & Kiba, Zuko’s Mom & Zuko, Geoge & Rusty, as well as Jess & Zeus, for sharing their Shiba Inu stories and many dog experiences. I made many changes to the article above based on their comments.
I have a 5 month Beagle and he is pretty well trained now, but it was quite difficult to make him listen. Would a Shib Inu be harder or just as hard?
Bruce Vang
Yeah, Beagles are very nose focused, so once they are on a scent trail, nothing else exists for them.
Shiba Sephy, on the other hand, is very self-focused. He thinks that everything exists to serve his royal needs. 😀
Some time ago, we were down to one dog and thinking about what kind to get next. I was intrigued by Shiba Inus, but as it happened, an opportunity arose to get a Basenji puppy, and after doing some research, that is what we did.
We had amazingly similar experiences to what you write about here. This was before the days of the web, and I was on a listserv with the motto “Where it takes 100 people to outsmart one Basenji.”
LOL! I like that!
Yeah, my Sibe breeder used to have several Basenjis as well, and she tells me that they have very similar characteristics to Shibas.
I welcomed NiuNiu, a 7-month female Shiba Inu, home 3 weeks ago. She is the most adorable friend I have ever had! But I just cannot find any way to train her, because she shows no persistence or strong interest in anything, either food, treats, or toys. As a Shiba puppy, she is skittish/cautious about everything. She will easily drop whatever she is doing, including food, when there is any sound or movement. She is very mellow and indifferent if you take away any treats she is enjoying or any toy she is playing. So let alone wanting it from you when you hold it in front of her. I really respect her coolness, but this makes it very hard for me to train her, a Shiba that cannot be motivated!
LOL! Yeah Shiba Sephy was similar in many ways. He is very picky about food, and not overly motivated by it. With toys, he only likes new toys.
What Sephy absolutely loves are his freedom, playing with other dogs, and playing chase games. Whenever I can, I use these things to motivate him and it seems to work well. 😀
In terms of cautiousness, desensitization exercises may help. My Sibe puppy Lara is also somewhat skittish, and calmness and desensitization have helped her with that. She has also gained more confidence as she grows older and learns that I am there to protect her.
Hugs to NiuNiu! Nice name.
I can relate to ADA. My 10 week old Shiba female, Loka spends most of her time in her crate in the bedroom. She is so mellow that she even falls asleep in the middle of puppy kindergarten class! She is not motivated by anything, but she seems to enjoy a lot of praise and freedom when she does do something good.
The only thing I am having problems with is that she turns into a maniac in the middle of the night! She is submissive and laid back during the day, but a party animal in the middle of the night. When I take her out to potty at midnight or later, she acts like a typical Shiba. Meaning she jumps, bites, runs like a mad woman and simply cannot be calmed down.
Has anyone else experienced this type of puppy behavior and provide advice on how to change it?
Hmmm, one contributing factor may be the heat. During the summer, my dogs just like sleeping on the tile floor when it is hot outside. When it starts cooling down at night, then all their pent-up energy comes out.
I try to walk them early in the morning, or later in the evening when the temperature is still cool.
We also have some play sessions early in the morning and later in the evening. Dogs are crepuscular, so they tend to perk up at dawn and dusk. The more that I can get them to do during the day, the more calm they are at night.
Another thing that has helped when Sephy was a puppy, is to take him out on-lead for night-time potty. In this way, he just does his business, we come back in, and he goes back into his crate.
Congratulations on your Shiba puppy and big hugs to Loka!
Hi, I just adopted a nine month old Shiba Inu. I have read up on Shiba Inu’s for over two years, and activly started looking for one a year ago. They are really expensive and rescues were out since they don’t like adopting to families with kids. We found one online from a private party, talked a long time and finally we drove out, met him and adopted him. He is getting along GREAT with my chihuahua! He is not neutered yet (he will be this morning lol) so he is a little frisky with her, but they like one another & things are going good. However, he is NOT doing good with my poor cats! I thought at nine months old, he was still a baby & he would learn to like them. Not so! My poor cats are terrified! They are hiding up high & the few times they have come down and come close to him they hiss, scratch and attack & he goes into attack mode chasing after them barking & growling. I don’t know what to do? I drove over 300 miles to get him, I paid a lot for him & I LOVE him hes great with our kids & our dog but how can I teach him that those cats are off limits? I leave his leash on at all times so I can catch him easy in case he tries something but the min he gets close to them he wants to chase them. I dont want to get upset, or discipline him too much, so that he associates cats with getting in trouble. Any advice would greatly be appreciated!!!!
Hello Emily,
Congratulations on your new Shiba Inu!
In terms of cats, I unfortunately do not have any first hand experience with this.
There are many Shiba veterans on the Shiba Inu Forum with good cat experience though. Here is a useful discussion on training Shibas to live well with cats-
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/7120/problem-with-cats/p1#Comment_125511
Hope this helps. Good luck and big hugs to your new puppy!
Hi! I few questions regarding my girl, Riley. She’s 5 1/2 months and has been a slightly different kind of Shiba than what I was initially expecting. She doesn’t bark or Shiba scream (not that I’m complaining!) and she normally just hangs out in the bedroom in her crate. She recently has been more playful, but generally it’s only in her familiar area of the bedroom. She loves meeting new people, but the novelty usually wears off after a few minutes. She does, however LOVE new dogs, and it’s sometimes impossible to control her behavior when she sees a dog on her walks.
Is this normal? I’ve owned other dogs, but this is my first experience with a Shiba. Do you have any advice that could help with her lack of manners?
Thanks!
Hello Chelsea,
Yeah, Shiba Sephy also used to get very excited with other dogs. Here are some of the things I did with him-
http://shibashake.com/dog/dog-to-dog-aggression
Also, in our old place, there was an awesome dog named Kai who lived nearby. We invited her over as often as we could to play with Sephy. They both had so much fun together. Every time we go out for walks, Sephy would go sit by her gate and wait for her.
I brought Sephy to enclosed dog parks earlier on, but the environment was too unstructured for him.
Hugs to Riley!
Hello Everyone,
I am in the middle of “Hell” with my 1 1/2 yrs old female…Mika. I got her from the NYC Rescue. This was a courtesy listing and I went to New Jersey to check her out. She seemed energetic and funny…plus she got along with my 3 year old male shiba (bandit) at that time. Things changed when we got her home. She became destructive in my home and attacked my male at any chance she got. Dog fights were common (it has gotten better). She also seemed to back track on potty training. We live in a great area for dog walks and take then quite frequently to go potty ( work from home so this is an easy task). She does not let us know when she has to go out and only pee’s (which bandit does) on walks now but still poops in the house (our trainer suggested bell training) which we are following through on.
She has a sweet nature but very dominate (especially towards our male shiba…she is a bitch). I later learned that she is from a puppy mill and then to an owner who barely walked her and left her in her cage alot. I have made great efforts to socialize her which she is doing great on (especially at puppy school and dog parks). We have had her for two months now and see progress but I do have a quesiton.
1). Bandit was easy to train but can you train a 1 1/2 year old shiba female who had no skills as a puppy on good behavior?
2). Why back tracking on potty training? Granted we live in a condo but frequent walks works and she has gotten picky with poop spots.
3).Can her behavior affect the good behavior of my male shiba? I got bandit from a reputable breeder and he has been a dream dog (although he was a little stinker in his teenage years).
I appreciate your support as my husband and myself are at our wits end even with puppy school and behavior specialist support. This is one tough shiba…she has what most people think about shiba’s…pain in the ass but I think it’s not her fault.
Thanks!
Mara
Hello Mara,
A big Kudos to you for helping out a Shiba in need.
1. Based on what I have read, it is possible to re-train most dogs. The only ones that are not trainable, are those that suffer from some serious health issues, especially involving the brain. However, dogs with difficult past experiences, and who are accustomed to certain unacceptable behaviors, will be a bigger challenge to re-train. Once something has become a habit, it will take more repetitions and greater consistency to change or re-condition that behavior.
2. In terms of potty training, many dogs do not generalize potty lessons across different environments. For example, she knows not to potty in her old house, but may not understand that the same rule holds true for her new condo. My Shiba Sephy sometimes wants to start marking indoors when we go to new places, e.g. vet hospitals, pet stores. I have to keep him moving, and keep a very close eye on him. Sephy is also very picky with poop spots. I have heard other Shiba owners mention this trait as well.
3. In general, if all dogs have to follow the same house rules, and are consistently ‘corrected’ or rewarded in the same way, then there should not be any problems. I have noticed with my own dogs that problems only arise when they see inconsistencies in rules, and how the rules are enforced.
When I brought puppy Lara home, I made sure she followed all of the same house rules. I also do not allow her to harass my other dogs. If she is pestering them, I no-mark her and body block her away. Then I engage her in doing something else. If she keeps going back to pester them, then she goes to timeout.
In addition, I also did group obedience training sessions so that the dogs learn that if they are calm and all work together, they all get rewarded very well. I always try to make together time very rewarding so that they all learn that cooperation gets them the most rewards.
In the beginning, Sephy did not get along very well with puppy Lara. Therefore, I made interactions with Lara as positive as possible, and avoided negative experiences. Most of the time Lara is under supervision, and has a drag-lead so that I can quickly get control of her.
Here are more of my experiences with introducing a new dog-
http://shibashake.com/dog/second-dog-introducing-a-second-dog
Hugs to Bandit and Mika. Let us know how it goes.
Thans for the reply to my earlier post. I don’t feel so badly about the need for the muzzle at the vet. The last time we went, they muzzled him, but did it too fast and then scooped him up and held him tight. The shiba screams began; he escaped fromt he muzzle and was fighting against another one. I finally figured out that he wasn’t trying to bite, just tell them how unhappy he was. I told them to stop, got in his face and gave the command “Quiet!”. He immediately quieted down, and when the vet tried to look into his ears, he started to mouth her again. I told him “no bite”. He immediately calmed down and allowed her to look into his ears without a problem. IDK, sometimes he’ll listen, but well, you know the rest.
He is a precious addition to our family and we adore him. But he is a challenge at times. Can you take your Shibas to a dog park? Are there other dogs they will play with or do they get overly excited when others are around?
I took Sephy to the dog park regularly (maybe about 3 times a week) for maybe about 5 months. We visited several different parks to get a feel for the regulars.
We finally decided to stop going because the enclosed dog park environment was just too unstructured for Sephy. There are often a fair number of dogs there that do not want to play, and of course Sephy would be pestering them to play with him. He was also bad about stealing balls in order to start a chase game.
We had to keep a very close watch on Sephy, and even then things seemed really iffy. He would often get over-excited and redirect his mouth onto us when we stopped him from his Shiba hijinks.
Here is more on our enclosed dog park experience.
This is just a general question about Shibas. I have a 9 week old male shiba pup, and when we take him walking it looks like he is walking diagonal. So to say his legs are both facing forward but his rear legs are a little to the right but hes going straight. Is this a sign of any problems?
Hello Alex,
It is difficult to tell. My Shiba also walks strangely sometimes (his butt moves a lot) and at first I thought it was hip dysplasia. Shibas are susceptible to this hip condition so I took Sephy for an x-ray when he was 2 years old. Luckily it turned out that he was ok. Guess he just walks strangely sometimes 😀
However, I would definitely consult with your vet. It may be nothing, but better to be safe and sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_dysplasia_(canine)
mine does that too, what kind of collar do you have on your shiba when you take him for a walk?
Our little Lucky is quite head-strong, but will do anything for a bit of a treat. My Daughter has him trained to play dead. She makes him lie down, then says “bang!”. He then falls over on his side. She places the treat right in front of his nose and he will stay there, ears perked and tail curled tightly just waiting to spring up and snatch the treat upon her “OK”. His return is OK, but when out in the yard, he sometimes needs the sound of the clicker to recall. He knows that if he comes, a small treat is in order.
He was a challenge for us to train, but I am finding his dislike for the handling of his feet more of a challenge than anything. We have played with them and had his nails clipped many times, but recently he has even barked maliciously at me when I touched them the wrong way. He even went after his beloved vet the last time she tried to examine him. So now, he is being trained to the muzzle because she wants him muzzled when she examines him. This is our only problem. He loves people, playing “fetch” until he tires of it, and very long walks in the park. Not fond of other dogs, but not vicious with them. Does anyone have any suggestions on the feet/handling thing? Or are we “blessed” with this forever?
Hello Rhonda,
Shiba Sephy is not a fan of handling either, but we have been able to slowly desensitize him to it.
– I would start by getting him to do a down. treat.
– Then I quickly touch a part of his body that he is ok with. In his case, it is on his neck. Not a hard touch, just a soft brief touch. treat if he stays calm.
– I keep repeating until he is comfortable with this.
– Then I touch somewhere else he is comfortable with, etc.
– I do this for a few days and if he is comfortable with all that, I start to introduce touching on his more sensitive areas. Again I start with a sensitive area that he is more comfortable with first and then work my way up.
I keep sessions short, rewarding and fun so that he learns to associate handling with something positive. Handling exercises has helped a lot with grooming and for putting on collars etc. With Sephy, it is also necessary to continue with handling exercises throughout adulthood. Otherwise he regresses back to getting stressed out/feeling threatened over it
When Sephy is hurt however, all bets are off. When he is in pain, he does not allow the vet or strangers to come near him so he needs to be muzzled or anesthetized for any kind of examination. He barely lets me come near him when he is in pain and in high alert mode. He also needs to be muzzled or anesthetized to get his yearly shots.
Thanks for the article. Does anyone here have/had an akita to compare the stubbornness/ challenge of training? My soon to be 3 year old akita was a pain in the butt to train as a puppY but has calmed downa lil when she turned 2. She is still stubborn as a mule but listens to us for the most part and is food driven. I feel like having an akita has given me the experience necessary to handle just about any stubborn breed but something tells me shibas are even more challenging
Check out http://fromthehouseofthefoxdogs.wordpress.com/
Shibamistress probably has some good insights into both breeds since she just got an Akita.
One of my neighbors also has a Shiba (male) and an Akita (female). The Akita is the more dominant one and she is older. He tells me that his Shiba is a lot more neurotic though. 😀
Thank you for the reply. I went and posted on her blog