Comments on: Food Training – Good, Bad, or Bribery?

By: lhemz

lhemz — Wed, 09 May 2012 07:44:34 +0000

this is very nice and i have learn a lots of training strategies

By: Alex

Alex — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:07:46 +0000

Well, since most videos on YouTube are copyrighted material not belonging to the posters (commercials, music videos, tv shows) alot of them wouldn’t care. But for those who actually make their own videos as art and post them, they would mind… Alot. I’m an ameture artist and I know I’d never want someone to claim my piece of art without express permission and acknowledgement that it was me who made it, not the poster. But since all the videos on youtube that I have are raw unedited stock, I really don’t care who posts them, or where.

By: shibashake

shibashake — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:22:05 +0000

Hey Alex,
Thanks for your answer.

“I’d just like to see this site you’re talking about that I’d ’strongly disagree with’”
Heh – no no, I am not associated with any disagreeble sites. I just wrote an article on youTube videos and copyright. Was having a discussion with some people about it, and we disagreed on some key points so I was just interested in other people’s opinions in terms of usage of their youTube videos. 🙂

By: Alex

Alex — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:09:37 +0000

Since he’s calmed down they’ve been getting along alot more. He’ll still try and get rough with her sometimes and she doesn’t like that. We control the situation, though, so they’ve been learning to co-exist.
Cat’s tail twitching can mean a number of things, in the video here I just think it’s a movement, like when you bob your leg. I know that when my cat whaps her tail around it means she’s agitated, and sometimes when she’s sitting and she wags it fast back and forth, most of the time she’s very intent on something, like she’s looking outside and sees all the things and smells things and hears animals. Just like dogs, tail-wagging doesn’t always mean one thing.
Yep. Usually I’ll just have him sit there for 30 seconds or so with the food by his nose and make him look me in the eyes. (makes the connection between me and the giving of food) but tricks are sometimes done just for fun. 😀

I wouldn’t really mind, although I’d like to see where my videos are going. It’s not an artwork or anything, and I wouldn’t want people to claim my video, but whatever you want to embed I don’t mind. I’d just like to see this site you’re talking about that I’d ‘strongly disagree with’, and where my video is posted in it. 🙂

By: shibashake

shibashake — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:50:38 +0000

Hey Alex, Great videos! Thanks for sharing.

I liked both of them. The cat one is very dear. It is amazing that they stay so close to each other. It was interesting that the cat’s tail was twitching the whole time 🙂 I am not really sure what that means.

Lupin is such a clever dog. I liked it that he did all those commands for you before dinner. I think working for their food is a good thing.

Btw- I have an off-topic question related to youTube – do you expect someone to ask you for permission before they use your videos? or would you be ok if whomever embeds it in their site without asking for permission? What if the site contains content that you strongly disagree with?

By: Alex

Alex — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:22:24 +0000

I can get a million videos like that. All I have to do is have a camera. Here are a few more of him.
The people in my developement are pretty nice. It’s mostly older couples that have retired, and richer people. Most of the kids are snobby brats.
Here is one of him and his ex-nemesis Rhea the cat.(They just recently started to get along, Lupin used to chase her and she’d tease him and then run away. Now he’ll actually get close to her without invading her space.. most of the time.) I’m trying to teach the cat to walk on a leash so she can go on our morning walks. So far I’ve only gotten the harness to fit right (it’s a dog harness). She’s an indoor cat so going outside is really new to her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCCLbOsyvg
And here is one of me feeding Lupin his evening meal. It’s hard to see him most of the time because it’s black dog on black.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKDwxJADgzY

By: shibashake

shibashake — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:48:27 +0000

Hahaha – I really like the one with your finger in his mouth.

Heh – looks like a really nice neighborhood. Would have liked to see more of Lupin tho 🙂

By: Alex

Alex — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:36:26 +0000

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs36/f/2008/277/6/1/Big_Lupin_by_Asphyxial.jpg
http://asphyxial.deviantart.com/art/Little-Lupin-88452770
and here’s a video I just took a few hours ago; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqvKIYnI6E

By: shibashake

shibashake — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:43:19 +0000

Hey Alex,

Cool video. Lupin is a good looking fella! Give me a link to his pictures if you have some up.

Re Bath – “The problem with what you might do (I’m assuming you’d put your dog in isolation, if not, tell me) ”

Actually that is not what I would do because you are correct that isolation would actually be a reward in this case. Also, in this case, if the dog were to show aggression, it will be most likely out of fear. My Shiba Inu used to get extremely fearful when I put him in the shower stall. I can understand – because it is small, kindda dark, wet, and he has nowhere to run if anything happened. He never got aggressive – but would stand there and shake.

Nowadays I bathe him in the backyard – usually by playing a water hose game with him. He generally doesn’t like to get wet, but he is very happy to get wet for a chasing game 🙂

I think a problem with using corrections in these situations of fear is that it makes the experience even more negative for the dog. Just as you say in the collar case – you would not do corrections.

Re Cesar’s methods – “3. Maybe you weren’t doing it right”

Oh I am sure I wasn’t doing it right. But there was only one person who ever did it “right” with my Shiba Inu and he is a trainer with 30+ years of experience, extremely confident, and had no fear whatsoever of dogs. He works in a city shelter so my Shiba Inu’s antics were probably nothing to him – lol. He only did leash corrections and did not approve of alpha rolls. I did about 2-3 weeks of private lessons with him and still I was not doing it right. 🙂

Other aversive type trainers that I went to with supposedly many years of experience didn’t get good results with my Shiba either. It was only that one trainer who was able to make leash corrections work.

And that I think is the main issue with Cesar Millan – most people are not going to be able to use his techniques properly, but because he is so popular – many people will try – and the results may not be good for the people or the dogs. In contrast, reward training is less risky, and while it also does require timing etc – it is easier to execute properly compared aversive training.

By: Alex

Alex — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:15:55 +0000

1. Cesar would make the other dog submit, but it would have to be done almost instantaneously. The alpha roll isn’t always submitting to the other dog, just having the dog that did wrong understand that what he did was not good, and putting him next to the dog he attacked puts two and two together. But since you were asking what I would do, I would just keep going. The other owner probably wouldn’t like it if I made his dog lay down beside my dog, and since I’m no expert, I wouldn’t want to risk getting my dog or me bitten.
In that situation, though, the other dog wasn’t stable, which means your dog won’t be submissive around him, only scared. They both have to be submissive to the humans to interact healthily. Remember, dogs will only follow a calm/assertive pack leader, I don’t think that dog was being any of those terms right then.
2. I wouldn’t use corrections if my dog was fearful (when my dog is acting fearful of strangers, I’ll tell them to ignore him and let him approach them, and if they don’t follow that, I’ll just take my dog away). Maybe I said correction in the wrong place when I was talking about the tooth brushing thing. Since I don’t brush my dog’s teeth (he chews rawhides like crazy so I don’t have to) I’m not sure exactly how I’d do it, but I would make sure my dog was calm/submissive when I did it. What I was getting at, though, was that people shouldn’t let their dogs tell them what to do. For example, if I was giving my dog a bath, and all of a sudden he snapped at me, I would correct him until he stopped, and keep on with his bath. The problem with what you might do (I’m assuming you’d put your dog in isolation, if not, tell me) is that if I would do that, he wins. He’d get what he wanted, to get out of taking a bath, and so he learns snapping = no bath = good. Or more directly, snapping = good/gets him what he wants. But like I said, the way you do it, this may not arise.
3. Maybe you weren’t doing it right. Cesar’s methods take a lot of time to understand (I would know). If you do not use physical corrections at the right time and at the right intensity level, they most likely will get a worse response instead of better. My dog has never been aggressive, but he is a bit stubborn. One time when he was just a couple of months old he started guarding a bone from us. We took care of that right away, though, and he hasn’t done it since. I think any way can work for any dog (except extremely “red-zone” aggressive cases, in which case I’m unsure). I’ve never seen a red zone case rehabilitated with solely positive reinforcement. Its just a matter of how well and how fast it will work.
4. I usually don’t even reply to people who are being negative. They’re just not worth the time. Just today I got this back from somebody on YouTube, “The show says to consult a professional because of the Humane Society. NatGeo also knew people would try Cesar’s idiotic ideas, get hurt doing so, and that could expose them to legal liability.
The Humane Society refers to Millans techniques as “inhumane, outdated, and improper”. The SPCA, CPDT and other professional organizations are all critical of him and his methods. He is an outcast in his own profession. Dogs read and react to body language. All his talk about energy is nonsense.” As if what the Humane Society and SPCA think are some kind of proof as to his credibility.
Here is the one I was talking about in my earlier post, “Just because he uses different words dosn’t mean anything. Also if you use force to train your dog then you arnt any kind of dog owner. The only thing you are fulfilling is your need to feel dominace over your dog. Victorias methods are world renowned for being the most effective in dog training but many of the leading dog experts around. Just because you copy what ceasar does on the TV in your own home means nothing.

Always fun chatting with you, too.
Want to see my dog on our tread mill? He could off leash on it after only three days of training, without treats! (I tried treats, but he would cough and choke on them) running + eating doesn’t work.) This was when he was seven months old.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7e4DueOYk