“positive is not permissive”

I definitely agree with that!

Thanks for the link. I read through several of her articles and definitely enjoyed them.

Not sure if you’ve ever heard of her or not, but Susan Garrett of “Say Yes” dog training is someone whose information I’ve found invaluable as I’ve trained my dog. She is on the rewards side of dog training, but reminds readers that “positive is not permissive”, meaning you can be positive (reward) average or better to get the response you want, and positive training isn’t about shoving so many treats/toys/rewards down a dogs throat that they stop listening and train their owners!

You may want to check out her blog (and video!) called “Transitioning to Do-Land” here http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2011/07/transitioning-to-do-land/

What do you mean when you refer to time outs? I don’t really want to put her in her kennel when this happens as this is where she sleeps when we are away.

Yeah I agree. In general it is best to do timeouts in an area that is different from the kennel or crate which, as you say, should be a safe and restful place for the dog.

I do my timeouts in the laundry room because it is boring, extremely low stimulus, and there is nothing in there to do, see, smell, or chew on. Shiba Sephy really likes his freedom so timeouts are very effective on him.

I start with really short timeouts maybe 30 seconds or so. I also get Sephy to Sit before I let him out. If he goes back to his biting right away, I calmly say timeout and put him back into timeout for a longer period of time (usually a couple of minutes), and so on.

With Sephy, he is always testing his boundaries. If he finds that he can get away with something, he will try to get away with it. It sounds like Stella may also be testing her boundaries. Shibas are such rebels.

changing the experience to positive by finding a toy and playing catch, getting down on the floor to spend some quality massage time with her etc.

If she is already jumping and biting, I would not give her a massage or play with her. This would reward and reinforce the jumping and biting behavior.

One way to redirect her, is to ask her for an alternative positive command, e.g. Sit or Down. When she is doing this alternative behavior, she is no longer jumping or biting. If she stays calm we can reward and reinforce that new good behavior with play and/or a massage.

Sephy started his biting phase with us really early. I did a lot of bite inhibition exercises with him when he was young. I still continue with bite inhibition training even today. It helps him control the force of his bites, and is really helpful for a mouthy breed like the Shiba.
http://shibashake.com/dog/bite-inhibition

Once Sephy learned that jumping and biting to get attention only got him a trip to the laundry room, he gave it up. Shibas are stubborn though, so it may take a fair number of repetitions. Consistency is also key. If Sephy senses any weakness, he will definitely exploit it.

Here are a few other things that may help with puppy biting.

Hugs to Stella. Let us know how it goes.

I think you are already way ahead of me because you stopped after one class with Kameron. It is also great that you are doing so much research. Haruki is a lucky Shiba to have an owner who cares so much. Making mistakes is natural, I think. What is important is realizing our mistakes and taking steps to fix them

Based on my experiences with Sephy, he really did not respond well to any physical techniques and became more aggressive. Alpha rolls especially, made him very sensitive to handling. After I switched to purely reward based training, his behavior improved significantly – not overnight – but over time.

If you are interested here is an article I wrote about dog psychology and dog behavior modification.

Are you starting a training program with this new trainer? Let me know more when you get the chance.

I feel like crap.

I tried my best in providing a loving home, quality food and quality time. I never raised a hand on him. I always thought that he was just tough and stubborn.

After consulting a very reliable trainer about aggressions and behaviours, I realize that I had been practicing some methods taught to me by that trainer can promote aggression.

What I can say is that… I was glad that I stopped with Kameron after one class and it was out of the worst luck that I even started with Kameron.

I have a lot of work with Haruki now and it breaks my heart to know that I had practiced bad training methods that had hurt Haruki.

Yeah, I ended the class. The street safety method didn’t bother me, I think some of their practice works nicely. Haruki followed me closely when he was on leash. It was just like when Brad Pattison had showed on TV. Yeah, treats are not allowed, since it was explained as a method similar to bribery.

But it was just that one particular method which bothered me. Um, I’m not sure if it is CET or just the trainer that uses this method where they would pat the face of a dog with both hands until it doesn’t jump on you anymore. I rather not practice it, to me that action is just the same as slapping or hitting the dog in the face even if it’s gentle pats. Haruki’s eyes squinted when that action was applied. I can’t afford to bring aggressions out of Haruki, especially not flight or handler. But over all, I think the martingale that they uses works the same as a choke chain but just looks gentler to the human eye.

Haruki is tough and falls into a lot of the aggression issues that I was researching about. As much as I like to enforce lots of positive and more gentle training, I sometime need to enforce some aversive methods. I know it does not look to sound nice, but I strongly believe that I must commit to some methods in order for Haruki to understand growling – teeth showing and actual disagreeing bites are not allowed. Currently, I only know of one way to correct Haruki when that happens, it is to pin him on his sides… until he calms.

For Haruki, it’s not the sit, hand, stay and come that I worry about. I guess it’s called Behaviour Modification that he needs? I have been reading into a lot of books to understand about dog aggressions and see what I can do….

I am very glad to hear that you decided to stop with the CET class. After watching some episodes with Brad Pattison, his methods seem like extreme traditional training which tends to not work well with Shibas. What was the questionable method btw.? I always like to keep up with everything that is out there

“I finally realize that it is me who is having problems.”
Yeah – after I realized this with Sephy things improved dramatically. Most of my problems came from >me< not having the right energy. After that improved, things really took a very positive turn

“I guess owning a dog is like a parent, you get judged a lot. … If I go positive, I’m too soft and weak. If I go aversive, I’m too tough and abusing. Sigh.”
lol – I so agree with this. I had a hard time with that too. My old neighbors always looked at us cross-eyed. Nowadays I just try to do what I think is best for Sephy and Shania, and the other people can judge whatever they want because Sephy and Shania matter a lot more to me

“I’m still learning and lets hope I am going towards the right track.”
You are definitely on the right track. Learning, keeping an open mind, and putting Haruki’s welfare first sounds like a really good track to me!

Would like to hear more about the CET class when you have the time. Is it mostly collar corrections? Or were there other things? Are they very much against the use of food?

Thanks!

Well Haruki and I had started training with the CET trainer.
It worked okay for the first class, we practice some of the methods, mostly street safety issues. There were one questionable method that I hold off on. Than I decided not to practice on the method mentioned by the trainer.. because no matter how you think about it, the method just doesn’t bode well. But I stopped furthering with the training with the trainer. I just wanted to see what else is there. It’s tough, I finally realize that it is me who is having problems. It’s me all along and I know it’s not easy being a tough person and having the right kind of common sense as to what to do if Haruki does this or that. I guess, it’s all about understanding your dog. I’m starting to read into a lot of books, to see if I can pick up some training methods that works well with me and Haruki.

I guess owning a dog is like a parent, you get judged a lot.
I didn’t realize that until I got my pup. I think the toughest part is this than the actual training. There’s always someone who has their own opinion on how a person should train their dog. If I go positive, I’m too soft and weak. If I go aversive, I’m too tough and abusing. Sigh.

But like you said, we know our dogs best and we know what works and what doesn’t. Aversive or positive, I guess we all aim for a dog that is has a happy life and a life happy to have with a dog.

I’m still learning and lets hope I am going towards the right track.

Thanks! Feel free to visit more of Haruki images on FLKR. He looks much bigger now!

Thanks!

Tsuki & Haruki