Comments on: Cesar Millan – the Good, the Bad, and All the Rest http://shibashake.com/dog Dog Tips, Care & Training Mon, 21 May 2012 21:28:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: shibashake http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-27154 shibashake Mon, 14 May 2012 17:50:58 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-27154 <blockquote>You don’t have to jerk the dog, just psychologically calm the dog (like he always talks about).</blockquote> Very good point.

You don’t have to jerk the dog, just psychologically calm the dog (like he always talks about).

Very good point.

]]> By: Katie http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-27089 Katie Sun, 13 May 2012 15:05:59 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-27089 I don't like how Cesar uses so much negative reinforcement to correct the dogs. When the dogs get worked up on the leash, he teaches us to be aggressive and pull on the leash while feeling calm, but you could also just calmly tell the dog "it's okay" or "let's go" and change directions. You don't have to jerk the dog, just psychologically calm the dog (like he always talks about). I think in the long run, getting a dog to trust you is better than getting a dog to fear you. I don’t like how Cesar uses so much negative reinforcement to correct the dogs. When the dogs get worked up on the leash, he teaches us to be aggressive and pull on the leash while feeling calm, but you could also just calmly tell the dog “it’s okay” or “let’s go” and change directions. You don’t have to jerk the dog, just psychologically calm the dog (like he always talks about). I think in the long run, getting a dog to trust you is better than getting a dog to fear you.

]]> By: shibashake http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-25144 shibashake Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:03:23 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-25144 <blockquote>the show is not meant to substitute doing your own research, asking vets, trainers etc.</blockquote> That is exactly right. In fact, I think that Millan also agrees, which is why he says - <blockquote>Do not attempt the techniques you are about to see without consulting a professional.</blockquote> Unfortunately, we are probably in the minority. In terms of aversive techniques, you may find these articles to be interesting- http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/if-youre-aggressive-your-dog-will-be-too-says-veterinary-study-university-pennsylvania http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/implications-of-punishment.php As for reward training, a common misconception is that it is only about using food. This is false. Reward training is actually more about controlling a dog's resources and using *all* of these resources to motivate him. It may be food, toys, freedom, access to people, access to space, attention, affection, etc. Here is an article on <a href="http://shibashake.com/dog/operant-conditioning-and-dog-training" rel="nofollow">operant conditioning and dog training</a>.

the show is not meant to substitute doing your own research, asking vets, trainers etc.

That is exactly right. In fact, I think that Millan also agrees, which is why he says -

Do not attempt the techniques you are about to see without consulting a professional.

Unfortunately, we are probably in the minority.

In terms of aversive techniques, you may find these articles to be interesting-
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/if-youre-aggressive-your-dog-will-be-too-says-veterinary-study-university-pennsylvania
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/implications-of-punishment.php

As for reward training, a common misconception is that it is only about using food. This is false. Reward training is actually more about controlling a dog’s resources and using *all* of these resources to motivate him. It may be food, toys, freedom, access to people, access to space, attention, affection, etc. Here is an article on operant conditioning and dog training.

]]> By: Sally http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-25104 Sally Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:09:36 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-25104 I recently got my first dog from a rescue organization, although I have been around dogs my whole life. Before bringing home my dog Ares, I read everything about training and adjusting the dog to my lifestyle. I didn't need to worry, he's a very laid-back dog. I have to say that while I don't need to use any of Cesar's aversion techniques, except for the occasional tug on the leash, I see nothing wrong with it. Reading his books, he never advocates hitting the dog and usually when he uses the alpha roll it's only with aggressive dogs and seeing that some of the dogs were going to be put down, it seems that a moment of mild discomfort, that once the dog learns the behavior will never have to be repeated, is hardly worth all the hub-bub. Although, by no means an expert and as I said, I just got my first dog, but I do work with dogs at rescue organizations and the problem I have w/ reward-based systems is that they take a greater amount of understanding, than Cesar's method, in that you can get a dog that will only come or obey when you have treats in hand. Having watched Cesar's show, and believe me, I'm as strong an animal activist as they come, I have never been like, Cesar is so cruel how could he do that, the training is always quick and decisive and as soon as the behavior stops, Cesar stops. That being said, I also want to point out that the show is not meant to substitute doing your own research, asking vets, trainers etc. before using any equipment or obedience methods. I thought your article was well written, but I must respectfully disagree with you regarding Cesar's methods. I recently got my first dog from a rescue organization, although I have been around dogs my whole life. Before bringing home my dog Ares, I read everything about training and adjusting the dog to my lifestyle. I didn’t need to worry, he’s a very laid-back dog. I have to say that while I don’t need to use any of Cesar’s aversion techniques, except for the occasional tug on the leash, I see nothing wrong with it. Reading his books, he never advocates hitting the dog and usually when he uses the alpha roll it’s only with aggressive dogs and seeing that some of the dogs were going to be put down, it seems that a moment of mild discomfort, that once the dog learns the behavior will never have to be repeated, is hardly worth all the hub-bub. Although, by no means an expert and as I said, I just got my first dog, but I do work with dogs at rescue organizations and the problem I have w/ reward-based systems is that they take a greater amount of understanding, than Cesar’s method, in that you can get a dog that will only come or obey when you have treats in hand. Having watched Cesar’s show, and believe me, I’m as strong an animal activist as they come, I have never been like, Cesar is so cruel how could he do that, the training is always quick and decisive and as soon as the behavior stops, Cesar stops. That being said, I also want to point out that the show is not meant to substitute doing your own research, asking vets, trainers etc. before using any equipment or obedience methods. I thought your article was well written, but I must respectfully disagree with you regarding Cesar’s methods.

]]> By: shibashake http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-22594 shibashake Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:36:48 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-22594 Hmmm, were they all fully potty trained previously? It could be that one of them started to mark, which will encourage the others to mark as well. I would probably go back to <a href="http://shibashake.com/dog/puppy-potty-training-facts-and-myths" rel="nofollow">potty training basics</a>. With my own dogs I do close supervision, crate training, and also catch them in the act. A common way that dogs learn is through <a href="http://shibashake.com/dog/operant-conditioning-and-dog-training" rel="nofollow">associative learning</a>, which makes it necessary to catch them in the act in order to teach them that certain behaviors are undesirable. Hmmm, were they all fully potty trained previously?

It could be that one of them started to mark, which will encourage the others to mark as well. I would probably go back to potty training basics. With my own dogs I do close supervision, crate training, and also catch them in the act.

A common way that dogs learn is through associative learning, which makes it necessary to catch them in the act in order to teach them that certain behaviors are undesirable.

]]> By: Richard Marvin http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-22533 Richard Marvin Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:38:04 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-22533 This is not a comment but a problem. We have 4 Carine Terriers 3 male 1female. Two of the boys are fixed and so is the female. The boys pee in the house and the have a dog door. It's not always in the same place. This started prior to getting are last male which is not fixed at this time. We don't know what to do because, we can't catch them in the act Need help This is not a comment but a problem. We have 4 Carine Terriers 3 male 1female. Two of the boys are fixed and so is the female. The boys pee in the house and the have a dog door. It’s not always in the same place. This started prior to getting are last male which is not fixed at this time. We don’t know what to do because, we can’t catch them in the act Need help

]]> By: shibashake http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-22328 shibashake Thu, 01 Mar 2012 00:03:26 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-22328 I agree that dogs are not human, and by the same token, <a href="http://thedoginc.com/dog-human" rel="nofollow">humans are not dogs</a>. As for why dogs get aggressive, there are many studies on this. http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/if-youre-aggressive-your-dog-will-be-too-says-veterinary-study-university-pennsylvania I agree that dogs are not human, and by the same token, humans are not dogs.

As for why dogs get aggressive, there are many studies on this.
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/if-youre-aggressive-your-dog-will-be-too-says-veterinary-study-university-pennsylvania

]]> By: Jackie Roberts http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-22326 Jackie Roberts Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:42:27 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-22326 I am now retired, but had been a dog instructure for 30 yrs. I believe the Dog Whisperer to be a breath of fresh air. I can't believe it when I hear from different dog owners, and some at the RSPCA, that his methods are wrong & even cruel. I say to them, how many dogs has he saved because of his understanding of dogs. I am now in my late 50's, but as a teenager, I also used the same methods, but mine were simply based on mother to pup behaviour, & dog to dog. It has always annoyed me, when breed owners see their dogs as that breed, not as a dog, and certainly not as a human. Give the dog back it's dignity by at least allowing it to fullfil it's life as a canine. There is a reason there are so many dog attacks on people, if listened to Cesar there wouldn't be..... I am now retired, but had been a dog instructure for 30 yrs. I believe the Dog Whisperer to be a breath of fresh air. I can’t believe it when I hear from different dog owners, and some at the RSPCA, that his methods are wrong & even cruel.
I say to them, how many dogs has he saved because of his understanding of dogs. I am now in my late 50′s, but as a teenager, I also used the same methods, but mine were simply based on mother to pup behaviour, & dog to dog. It has always annoyed me, when breed owners see their dogs as that breed, not as a dog, and certainly not as a human. Give the dog back it’s dignity by at least allowing it to fullfil it’s life as a canine.
There is a reason there are so many dog attacks on people, if listened to Cesar there wouldn’t be…..

]]> By: shibashake http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-21419 shibashake Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:08:42 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-21419 Hello Roswitha, Thanks for sharing your dog training experiences with us. <blockquote>It more often than not is the owners attitude and of course his willingness to persevere, that make the method work.</blockquote> That is very well said. As you say, it is unfortunate that there is so much nastiness whenever people discuss the various dog training methods and philosophies. For me, it is very simple. I want to make the best decisions for my dogs. As such, I try to get as much information and scientific data as I can, and I also try my hardest to understand what my dogs are saying to me. In general, it matters little to me whether Cesar Millan, Victoria Stilwell, Ian Dunbar, or some other personality is best or more right. What I care about are the methods themselves, and how my dogs respond to them. In the end, the personalities that matter most to me are my dogs. <blockquote>The positive trainers and the dominance embracing people do absolutely the same: They hardly listen or see what really happens.</blockquote> Yeah, I agree. When it comes to bringing up a dog, our ego usually plays a big role. When ego comes into play, being right is more important than listening to our dogs, and doing what is best for them. There is so much discussion of dominance in dog training, but so little discussion of <strong>empathy</strong>, which I think is much more important. Empathy is important in human relationships, and it is important in dog relationships. In her book "Inside of a Dog" Alexandra Horowitz talks about the "umvelt" of a dog (world of a dog). In my opinion, that is one of the most important aspects of establishing a good relationship with our dogs - understanding their "umvelt", their needs and goals, how they view the world, and how they interact with the world. Then, we can help them fulfill their needs and goals, and help everyone achieve a good quality of life. Dogs don't need much, if we would only listen; as they listen so well to us and our needs. Hello Roswitha,

Thanks for sharing your dog training experiences with us.

It more often than not is the owners attitude and of course his willingness to persevere, that make the method work.

That is very well said. As you say, it is unfortunate that there is so much nastiness whenever people discuss the various dog training methods and philosophies. For me, it is very simple. I want to make the best decisions for my dogs. As such, I try to get as much information and scientific data as I can, and I also try my hardest to understand what my dogs are saying to me.

In general, it matters little to me whether Cesar Millan, Victoria Stilwell, Ian Dunbar, or some other personality is best or more right. What I care about are the methods themselves, and how my dogs respond to them. In the end, the personalities that matter most to me are my dogs.

The positive trainers and the dominance embracing people do absolutely the same: They hardly listen or see what really happens.

Yeah, I agree. When it comes to bringing up a dog, our ego usually plays a big role. When ego comes into play, being right is more important than listening to our dogs, and doing what is best for them.

There is so much discussion of dominance in dog training, but so little discussion of empathy, which I think is much more important. Empathy is important in human relationships, and it is important in dog relationships. In her book “Inside of a Dog” Alexandra Horowitz talks about the “umvelt” of a dog (world of a dog). In my opinion, that is one of the most important aspects of establishing a good relationship with our dogs – understanding their “umvelt”, their needs and goals, how they view the world, and how they interact with the world.

Then, we can help them fulfill their needs and goals, and help everyone achieve a good quality of life. Dogs don’t need much, if we would only listen; as they listen so well to us and our needs.

]]> By: The Myth of Alpha Dogs - Page 3 - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums http://shibashake.com/dog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer#comment-21391 The Myth of Alpha Dogs - Page 3 - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:46:25 +0000 http://shibashake.com/shibainublog/cesar-millan-the-good-and-the-bad-of-the-dog-whisperer/#comment-21391 [...] I wonder if the tv program dog whisper would be as successful if it was based on non sensationalized training techniques ? Lets face it what would provoke a reaction from TV execs and indeed people sitting on their couch, a reward based positive behavior training TV show, or a show where, dogs are kicked, alpha rolled, and all sorts of sensationalized aversive training techniques, that leave the dog stressed. Here is a nice article I read on this Cesar Millan – the Good, the Bad, and All the Rest [...] [...] I wonder if the tv program dog whisper would be as successful if it was based on non sensationalized training techniques ? Lets face it what would provoke a reaction from TV execs and indeed people sitting on their couch, a reward based positive behavior training TV show, or a show where, dogs are kicked, alpha rolled, and all sorts of sensationalized aversive training techniques, that leave the dog stressed. Here is a nice article I read on this Cesar Millan – the Good, the Bad, and All the Rest [...]

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